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"Christian View on Piercing"

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URL: http://www.bodymod.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12760
Printed Date: December/02/2022 at 3:24pm


Topic: "Christian View on Piercing"
Posted By: Tali
Subject: "Christian View on Piercing"
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 12:02am
http://www.born-again-christian.info/questions/answers.43.htm -
An article I found... And I'd like to note that in no way am I attacking Christianity or anything, jsut simply posting an article of this person's views and their justification...
 
http://www.born-again-christian.info/questions/answers.43.htm - http://www.born-again-christian.info/questions/answers.43.htm
 
EDIT: from another article of theirs: "The desire to pierce your body does not come from God, but from demons taking advantage of your poor self-image. Yield to them, and they will take you away from Christ, and stop you seeking His will.  Ask Jesusu how you can be Beautiful in His Eyes, and that demonic urge will vanish in an instant."
 
Hell, if I cared how I looked I wouldn't even have piercings (not that piercing in general look bad, I jsut don't pierce for aesthetic reasons).



Replies:
Posted By: Cale
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Tali

http://www.born-again-christian.info/questions/answers.43.htm -
"The desire to pierce your body does not come from God, but from demons taking advantage of your poor self-image. Yield to them, and they will take you away from Christ, and stop you seeking His will.  Ask Jesusu how you can be Beautiful in His Eyes, and that demonic urge will vanish in an instant."
 
I find this a little disturbing. I'm not a religious person (nor am I attacking anyone who is, because my boyfriend is Christian and I stand next to him and his beliefs), but quotes like this make me glad that my views and opinions are open-minded and fair. Just because you believe in God, it shouldn't mean that you can't portray a specific self-image. Of everything that I know and have learned of religion, I think that God just wants you to love, no matter what choices you make based on your appearance, even if you "vandalize, mutilate, or deface it".
 
It's a very interesting article. I'm glad you shared it. If you find this kind of thing interesting, you should see a movie/documentary called Jesus Camp. It's about children and teenagers who are born-again Christians.


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Miss Cale
True Blue Tattoo ~ 303-989-6824
305 S Kipling St, Lakewood, CO 80226
http://www.facebook.com/piercingbymisscale - facebook.


Posted By: MrGlass
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 12:40am
Some old lady tried that BS with me. The funny thing though, was when I asked her if she was a sinner or had demons because her ears were pierced TWO TIMES in each ear she said "that's different" and I said "no, that's just accepted because it's been done to SO MANY women it doesn't matter anymore."

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[QUOTE=ichfielunten] ...Just be yourself and hope some one notices that you're awesome...[/QUOTE]


Posted By: AntoParanoia
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 1:34am
Originally posted by MrGlass

Some old lady tried that BS with me. The funny thing though, was when I asked her if she was a sinner or had demons because her ears were pierced TWO TIMES in each ear she said "that's different" and I said "no, that's just accepted because it's been done to SO MANY women it doesn't matter anymore."


true!!! i'm right there with ya!!!!


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Todos estamos muertos por dentro, la diferencia es cuanto tardas en descubrirlo...



Posted By: Lunch_Box_Ink
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 1:44am
I'm going to start by saying I am a devout Christian!  a great deal of my life is dedicated to my faith and spirituality.
 
ok, having said that...
 
This is NOT the "christian" view on piercing.  It is a modern legalistic view on piercing and modification in general.
 
1)  The body is a temple.  ok, BUT at the same time in the grand scheme of eternity our body dies, roughts away and becomes dust.  to quote the Bible, When we go to heaven were given a new body.  Not onl;y that, but doi we not decorate our building Temples?  Also, look at half of these people who say such things against piercing, they will have there ears pierced.  and they're come back will be somthing stupid like "oh, that's not the same thing"...we all know it is, they are hypocrits!  The way we mod our bodies is not defiling "God's Temple" as they say it is.  THE FUCKING WAY WE EAT, THE WAY WE GET FAT, THE WAY WE POLUTE AND EAT, DRINK, AND BREATH THAT SHIT!  THAT DEFILES "God's Temple" more then a fucking piercing!
 
2)  The references in the bIble tword modification is COMPLETLEY out of context and is NOT the same as what we do.  It referse to religous, or pagan practices that were to "false Gods" and other such things that would have been considerd against God in THAT TIME!  Alot of what the Bible speaks has to do with that era and thier culture.  the way and reasons we pierce ourself, or most of us pierce ourselfs are not at all the same as what the Bible speaks about. 
 
ok, I'm ranting.  I could go on.  But you get what I'm saying.  This pisses me off because I have had my own brothers and sisters in christ ridecule me or YEARS and I've heard this shit over and over and over and it's a bunch of BullSHIT!
 
God's concern is with a person's heart and spirit!  not a temporary dying flesh sack that holds the soul for a time that is only going to die and decay anyway
 
 
All of you pierced up peoples are beautiful!  keep it up!


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Posted By: MrGlass
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 2:08am
This page has been bookmarked due to lunch_box_ink's post. That's like THE best thing I have ever read... EVER. When I read your post though the only thing I could think of was the turrets guy cuz the way you capitalized certain words lol.

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[QUOTE=ichfielunten] ...Just be yourself and hope some one notices that you're awesome...[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Lunch_Box_Ink
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 2:17am
Originally posted by MrGlass

This page has been bookmarked due to lunch_box_ink's post. That's like THE best thing I have ever read... EVER. When I read your post though the only thing I could think of was the turrets guy cuz the way you capitalized certain words lol.
 
I don't exactly know what that was supposed to mean but ok


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Posted By: rddw3
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 2:59am
I saw another posting of a picture that tells the exact opposite view with the quote "Body Piercing Saved Our Lives"
I totally agree w/ Lunch_Box_Ink in all he said. Jesus would hang out w/ sinners and ppl ridculed him for that. He was more concerned about the changing the hearts of those that were living in sin than what they looked like. He cured leppers, some of the most disgusting ppl at that time, and had meals with tax collectors, some of the more hated ppl. Jesus went where he was needed all the way to having nails driven through him to hang on a cross and die.


Posted By: MrGlass
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 3:20am
TOURETTE'S guy oops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY
But I liked your post

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[QUOTE=ichfielunten] ...Just be yourself and hope some one notices that you're awesome...[/QUOTE]


Posted By: bite_my_heart
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 6:01am
i get this crap from people a few times a month but ive had the same argue ment as glass people like that are lemmings tbh
your piercings are the devils work

whats about other religions who have bodymods in there religion hinduisum mos of the gods have streched ears and pierced noses the budda had streched lobes and the monks have large tattoos covering there body mostly holy scriptures

but my mods are for me and me alone :D




Posted By: Rhuin
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 12:05pm
This just makes me so glad that despite both my parents being ministers, they don't mind how I look or how pierced I am (mum's not big on tattoos, but that's more to do with permanacy and jobs than anything to do with God)

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I choose my own way to burn


Posted By: Shelliokin
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Lunch_Box_Ink


2)  The references in the bIble tword modification is COMPLETLEY out of context and is NOT the same as what we do.  It referse to religous, or pagan practices that were to "false Gods" and other such things that would have been considerd against God in THAT TIME!  Alot of what the Bible speaks has to do with that era and thier culture.  the way and reasons we pierce ourself, or most of us pierce ourselfs are not at all the same as what the Bible speaks about.
God's concern is with a person's heart and spirit!  not a temporary dying flesh sack that holds the soul for a time that is only going to die and decay anyway



Honestly, most of what's in the Bible is taken out of context and the vast majority of it doesn't apply to our modern society. Period. I am a Christian, I go to church regularly, I'm glad to talk about it with anyone who wants to talk with me. I'm a body modification enthusiast. I also ate pork for breakfast (the Bible says we shouldn't do that, as it is "dirty" meat) and I don't kill two pigeons every time I start my period (which the Bible says I should do).

Honestly, there are more understanding and accepting Christians out there than there are judgmental ones, especially (in my experience) when it comes to piercings and tattoos. The problem is that you only hear about the unaccepting ones. I think of it the same way I think of bad news -- I like it when there's bad news, because the minute they start reporting mostly good news, it means the bad news isn't news any more, it's commonplace.

I fully agree with Lunch Box... God really doesn't care about what you look like as long as what's on the inside is good. He doesn't so much look at what's done as the intent behind it.

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And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.


Posted By: Flogger
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 4:52pm
I just get really pissed off when I read stuff like this, just like I get sad about todays people and how they interpret religion. And I love religion, ALL religion, just the phenomena of religion is beautiful IMO, but as mentioned earlier...few faiths have to do with physical appearance, mostly it's about heart.




Posted By: justinpendleton
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 5:26pm
Lunch_Box_Ink said everything!

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The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. Blake, William. That's really all you need to know. That and "Don't dream it, be it!"


Posted By: lil lucifer
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 5:56pm
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=35&v=4&t=KJV#4 - Gen 35:4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which [were] in their hand, and [all their] earrings which [were] in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which [was] by Shechem.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=32&v=2&t=KJV#2 - Exd 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which [are] in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring [them] unto me.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=32&v=3&t=KJV#3 - Exd 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which [were] in their ears, and brought [them] unto Aaron.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=35&v=22&t=KJV#22 - Exd 35:22 And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, [and] brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered [offered] an offering of gold unto the LORD.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Num&c=31&v=50&t=KJV#50 - Num 31:50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=8&v=24&t=KJV#24 - Jdg 8:24 And Gideon said unto them, I would desire a request of you, that ye would give me every man the earrings of his prey. (For they had golden earrings, because they [were] Ishmaelites.)
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=8&v=25&t=KJV#25 - Jdg 8:25 And they answered, We will willingly give [them]. And they spread a garment, and did cast therein every man the earrings of his prey.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=8&v=26&t=KJV#26 - Jdg 8:26 And the weight of the golden earrings that he requested was a thousand and seven hundred [shekels] of gold; beside ornaments, and collars, and purple raiment that [was] on the kings of Midian, and beside the chains that [were] about their camels' necks.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=3&v=20&t=KJV#20 - Isa 3:20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=16&v=12&t=KJV#12 - Eze 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hsa&c=2&v=13&t=KJV#13 - Hsa 2:13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.




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Guns are for show, Knives are for a pro!


Posted By: zombiemaster
Date Posted: December/14/2008 at 8:58pm
Thus we come to the "old testament" "new testament" arguement which I really dont feel like getting into.

Truth be told I hate discussing theology with people because everyones views are different. Lunch box hit it really close as did shelli, what went on then is completely different than now. Pork is a dirty meat to the Jewish, not the prodestant, and if not for that, pig farmers would go broke.

 Ear piercing and tattooing have been around for centuries, it all comes down to your reasoning. If one were to say "im going to have my ears pierced to defy you God." Then yes, that would be a sin I suppose. But doing it to decorate your body, your temple, I assume wouldnt be.

If a simple piercing (facial or otherwise) can shake a persons faith in God or whatever other being they choose to follow, then, that person didnt have much faith at all did they? And if ridicule by hard-nose, up tight, hypocritical "christians" about your body modifications makes you question your faith or yourself as a person then you never had much faith, did you?

 



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I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.


Posted By: josh1212
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 12:42am
Dude I seriously dont care anymore about the christian faith its so shallow and unknown there's literally so many religons of christianity alone. I tendto like christians that are more left wing and open minded, though what ever ima have to deal with the GOP people when I go to missisouri in a few days with a 0g nose, religon is an unknown theory, dont take what they say to the limit people, just live and be kind thats pretty much it. And remeber no one but yourself is the judge of yourself


Posted By: Braids
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 12:59am
im just glad that my church isnt like this. the people there dont say its a sin or anything to have piercings/stretched lobes, in fact they seem more interested in how its done or remark how beautiful it is (like if im wearing glasswear or something) or just dont pay attention. i dont really know their stance on tattoos though mostly because i am the most modified person at my church and still lack any ink...im sure i would get some shit if i had a scarification or branding or a subdermal or something along those lines tho...

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omnomnom


Posted By: Uraniumhobo
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 1:02am
josh1212 i thought id be hassled for all the stuff i have when i moved here and to missisippi but i really didnt at all, id say wait and see the people they will suprise you

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Ah ha-ha, chess. The ancient contest of wits. Two opponents: mano a mano. Braino a braino. And look: magnets for ease of travel. You could play chess on the moon.


Posted By: SteveSirenic
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 1:09am
Topics like this make me happy that I don't believe in a god. I don't have to get into these kind of arguments over nothing. haha

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Roads? Where we're going, we don't need no roads. -ISHC


Posted By: Flogger
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 3:58am
There are extreme people in all religions and faiths...this guy has nothing to do with christianity, he's just a moron, who happens to be a christian...


Posted By: lil lucifer
Date Posted: December/15/2008 at 4:13am
With all the ear ring qoutes I found I cant find the one thing that says  you shouldnt pierce your self. It goes something like , Moses comes down from the mountain and the hebrews had melted down all their earings (gold) to make the bull statue(false idol) and moses says from then on never to wear earings among other things so this couldnt happen again.
With tattoos its only not to tattoo dead relatives which would elude to ansestor worship over god. I think these are from the Torah and not really followed by christians other than the wacko evangalists.
Its all cods wallop anyway. Out of the millions of gods and their different interpretations by humans, Its a folly to subscribe to any of them.
Be true to your self and your loved ones and you cant go wrong.
\m/


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Guns are for show, Knives are for a pro!


Posted By: catexelizabeth
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:49am
ridiculous...extremist views never cease to amaze me.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 10:05am
extremist views are the best, blow up my tv in the name of allah, pelase. i just blew it up in the name of "fuck you" and it didn't acccopmplish anything.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 10:09am
extremist views are the best, blow up my tv in the name of allah, pelase. i just blew it up in the name of "fuck you" and it didn't acccopmplish anything.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: thesounknown
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 11:42am
Hmm I'm an atheist.  It's much easier.  I don't have to worry about what rules I am supposed to be following. :)
The only thing that bothers me is when people try to use their religion to attack other people like that article is.  I don't even know why they care if other people are wearing demon jewelry or whatever.  No one is forcing them to do it.
Nice to see there are a lot of open minded Christians on this site.  :)


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She looks like the real thing.
She tastes like the real thing.
My fake plastic love.


Posted By: bekki659
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by lil lucifer

With all the ear ring qoutes I found I cant find the one thing that says  you shouldnt pierce your self. It goes something like , Moses comes down from the mountain and the hebrews had melted down all their earings (gold) to make the bull statue(false idol) and moses says from then on never to wear earings among other things so this couldnt happen again.
With tattoos its only not to tattoo dead relatives which would elude to ansestor worship over god. I think these are from the Torah and not really followed by christians other than the wacko evangalists.
Its all cods wallop anyway. Out of the millions of gods and their different interpretations by humans, Its a folly to subscribe to any of them.
Be true to your self and your loved ones and you cant go wrong.
\m/
 
I dont know that it was literally supposed to mean "dont pierce yourself".  The bible is often dramatic and if they were to say "take off your earrings, bangles, anklets, jewels, colored cloth and bring them forth" it wouldn't have been as as eloquent.
I haven't ever done much research on this specifically, but I would assume that the culture of the bible was much the same as other places in the world at that time...
And in most all other cultures, heavy earrings made of gold were a sign of respect and status, as well as familial ties and inter familial ranking.
If that was the case, I would think that earrings would have been targeted as a big factor in the creation of the statue, but it would be unrealistic to say that bangles and anklets weren't present as well.
And since the bible nuts only heard earrings... they immediately skip to PIERCINGS = SATAN!
 
As a Christian myself, I dont take the bible word for word.  You have to keep in mind who wrote it and for what time period, based on what they knew about the world.  Also, it wasnt written to be a manual (imo) for life.  Instead, I see it as a story, written by storytellers.
 
I'm sure that religious figures also flipped out when women started wearing makeup... but at this point there are very few preacher's wives who would step out of their houses without it.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by bekki659

As a Christian myself, I dont take the bible word for word.  You have to keep in mind who wrote it and for what time period, based on what they knew about the world. 



i thought your bible was written by your god?



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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: bekki659
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by kcir

Originally posted by bekki659

As a Christian myself, I dont take the bible word for word.  You have to keep in mind who wrote it and for what time period, based on what they knew about the world. 



i thought your bible was written by your god?

 
No, I dont believe that god wrote the bible.  Even if somehow (which I still would doubt) he was speaking directly to the people who were writing it, AS they were writing it, I think there would have been something lost in communication. 
Humans are imperfect creatures, so I wouldn't expect for them to be able to correctly convey God's words.
And then you have the translations into English.
 
I think its kinda naive to think that every word in the bible is directly from god's mouth... back when I attended a presbyterian church, there was a great sermon on "picking and choosing" from the bible.  There are things in it that I dont think MY God would condone- the loving, caring, forgiving god- things that go against humanity.
 
And like was said previously, the thing about sacrificing doves every time I start my period?  Yikes... why would god want me to hurt one of his creations?
 
There are SO so many branches of Christianity.  Some people really do believe each word, some dont.
 
Not to get off topic anymore, but hopefully that answers your question.
 
 


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 3:13pm
well, the vatican may disagree, but i think it is kindof a silly idea for a supreme deity to write a how-to manual about your everyday life. and to think that it's unlogical to have a vengeful and forgiving god? bah. those numskulls who wrote the qumran scrolls, wow, what asshats, eh?

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: bekki659
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 3:26pm
I guess there are some people who are so concerned with getting into heaven and living in God's way (those are the ones who feel the needs to have the bible tell them everything) that they forget that the whole point of it is just to be a good, loving person (at least thats my conclusion from years of teachings).
When people start hating on those who have piercings and tattoos, and those who make choices that aren't necessarily 100% pure and wonderful, they kinda become the very thing that I think god would NOT want them to be.
 
But once again, thats just my essentially uneducated opinion on something that is so intangible.
 
 
I feel like a nutjob saying things like "His word" and "God's way" Faint 


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 3:39pm
sorry, i have problems believing in an invisible guy that watches you from space and throws you in hell for denying his existance, even if you live a more peaceful and forgiving life than those that wear the cloth. there are certain aspects to the human life which each of us understands to be "wrong" and self-harm isn't one of them. i've noticed a large number of christians do things that are obviously against the code of ethics because it's sanctioned in the bible. if all followed the rule of "do what thou wilt but harm none" we'd all be in a better place i think.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: bekki659
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:00pm
Of course, and those are the people who give Christianity a bad name.
And this may be against the Christian ideals, but I dont think that all the people who are not christian (people who dont believe in god and people of other religions) go to hell.  There are too many good people for that.
 
Perfect example- I have three best friends.  I traditionally am the "floater" of the group, who absorbs more than just Christianity into my beliefs.  One friend is a Hare Krishna, one has no beliefs at all, and the other is a devout Christian.  One day we were talking about what would happen if one of us was right... that would automatically screw the others over.  And we've all good people.  So yeah.  I dont find it all that fair.
 
If the entire world was a little more understanding of COURSE we would be in a better place.


Posted By: dueyferg
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:07pm
This has come a ways from piercing, but the whole point of the bible and christianity is for us to realize that we are sinful people (we have hate and greed..ect) and for us to conclude that we need a relationship with God through Christ in order to pay for our sins. From there we realize how loving and kind God is and return that love to the people around us.
 
Point is my lip ring does not effect my relationship with God.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by dueyferg

This has come a ways from piercing, but the whole point of the bible and christianity is for us to realize that we are sinful people (we have hate and greed..ect) and for us to conclude that we need a relationship with God through Christ in order to pay for our sins. From there we realize how loving and kind God is and return that love to the people around us.
 

Point is my lip ring does not effect my relationship with God.



fuck you. how dare you insinuate that everyone is a sinner.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: dueyferg
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:17pm
Really?  So you or someone you know is perfect, and has never even wronged anyone?
 
Do not get me wrong I respect your belief if that is what you believe? I am just being inquisitive.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:22pm
i never said i was error free. i resent being called a sinner. it's your faulty beliefs that make us all "sinners." the only people that believe in satan are christians. doesn't that make you all satanists? why the fuck would you create a world so fucked up you would have to create offspring to sacrifice for their salvation? that's a flawed concept if i've ever seen one.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: dueyferg
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:33pm
I would think that satanist worship satan. Just because a person acknowledges his existence does not make them a satanist. God did not create a fucked up world. Humans did because God gave us free will and we chose to use that against him. If he did not give us free will then we would just be little god robots.
 
I did not mean to offend by implying that you personally are a sinner, but if you want my opinion then I guess you already have it.


Posted By: billyG
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:37pm
 First off I do believe in God but not in the bible, going to church, and Heaven/Hell. I went to church on a regular basis and knew the bible by heart for a year and a half. I quite going because I realized having faith is all that mattered not how many times a month I went to church or how many times I had read the bible.
 
 Since then I've been told countless times by so called "christians" that I'm going to hell because of my piercings and tattoos. I've also met people who say their "true christians" (go to church on a regular basis, know the bible by heart and go on mission trips) but have turned out to be complete hypocrites. One of the persons that told me I was going to go to hell for my mods also tried to preach to me about drinking, smoking, drugs, and sex before marriage. Guess what she did all of those things on a regular basis.

We all have the right to have our own beliefs.So just because some people go to church on a regular basis and know the bible by heart it doesn't give them the right to judge anybody,go around preaching about personal beliefs or make them better than anybody else.  If God did create us he must have given us FREE WILL for a reason.

 "True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness."
     -Albert Einstein






Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 4:38pm
wow, that's pretty deep for an assclown. you just said we were ALL SINNERS. as in there is no choice. how is it free will if you're wrong regardless of your choice other than to kiss someone's ass? your god is an amalgamation of deities long forgotten, none of it is original, it's bedtime stories told to scare children into acting right. you may as well call him zoroaster, because thats where more than 50% of your holy books come from. (at least the parts that your vatican thinks you are able to comprehend and lets you see)

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: dueyferg
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 5:01pm
Vatican? I do not remeber saying that I was catholic. Which I am not. I was just trying to explain to you some fundamental christian beliefs. I was not looking for an arugment and I was really hoping this would not come to name calling. I was interested in a discussion. My intent was not to offend, as I respect people and their beliefs. I do belive that everyone sins and it is free will because we can choose to have Christ death pay for our sins or not. kcir if you would like a discussion talk to me privately.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 5:17pm
i want no discussion with you, you've got the same answers any other bible thumper has. i'm the only god i need, when i die my world ends.

you may not be a catholic, but the vatican still has control of your holy books.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: catexelizabeth
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 7:56pm
haha, too true.


Posted By: catexelizabeth
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by kcir

extremist views are the best, blow up my tv in the name of allah, pelase. i just blew it up in the name of "fuck you" and it didn't acccopmplish anything.


^referring to this...i forgot to quote it =X


Posted By: BloodLust26
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by kcir

i'm the only god i need, when i die my world ends.

thats exactly how i feel




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Posted By: Uraniumhobo
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by kcir

i want no discussion with you, you've got the same answers any other bible thumper has. i'm the only god i need, when i die my world ends.

you may not be a catholic, but the vatican still has control of your holy books.


reading i really dont believe he was personaly calling everyone sinners but just stating a view thats percieved by the bible but not his exact view but even if he did think that eeryone is a sinner its not that big of a deal since everyone is entitled to there own beliefs, there could be certain grades and extents to what he or the bible thinks of sinners, since a tiny little lie like someone asking if there ass was big and you said no, would make you a sinner, the only thing i can say is live an let live theres no point in getting upset about it right guys?

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Ah ha-ha, chess. The ancient contest of wits. Two opponents: mano a mano. Braino a braino. And look: magnets for ease of travel. You could play chess on the moon.


Posted By: 3ISNOTALETTER
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:48pm
kcir I don't mean to be a dick but satan has to exist for god to exist he's needed to show people gods power and to tempt those who are not rightous if there is no temptatopn there is no virtue.

i'm not arquing ethics or whatever else I don't believe in catholisim or christianity either but its just like in sicene for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction


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I hear them ................ They're walking...................




Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:49pm
sorry, i take offense to being held to another's religious ideals. just because christianity is one of the world's biggest cults doesn't mean christians can go around insulting everyone else for not thinking like they do.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by 3ISNOTALETTER

kcir I don't mean to be a dick but satan has to exist for god to exist he's needed to show people gods power and to tempt those who are not rightous if there is no temptatopn there is no virtue.i'm not arquing ethics or whatever else I don't believe in catholisim or christianity either but its just like in sicene for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction



satan is a weak explanation for the base desires we all feel and most of us understand to be wrong. it's not some big horny red guy that tempts you, it's the knowledge you can do something and get away with it.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: Uraniumhobo
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by kcir

sorry, i take offense to being held to another's religious ideals. just because christianity is one of the world's biggest cults doesn't mean christians can go around insulting everyone else for not thinking like they do.


those wh judge in such a way will be dealt with if god exists becuase there sinning for judging since in there eyes only god is alowed to judge, but i must say i know it sucks sometimes and it can be irritating for what others say about us, but sometimes we do the same thing for bashing there beliefs as well which seems a little unfair

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Ah ha-ha, chess. The ancient contest of wits. Two opponents: mano a mano. Braino a braino. And look: magnets for ease of travel. You could play chess on the moon.


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 9:15pm
judge all you want, believe what you will, but don't insult me and pretend it's ok because a book says so.

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http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: LAFhasheart
Date Posted: December/30/2008 at 9:48pm
Something I would like to point out about the bible is that the old testament is mostly historic accounts and the old laws that the Hebrew people lived by before Jesus was sent by God to earth to bring the law of the new testament. A lot of the old testament doesn't apply to us today. Jesus' message was a message of love and compassion. When people who say they are Christians, or proclaim to do things in the name of God, say hateful things towards anyone they can't being doing that or saying what they are saying for any reason other than for self profit, to either make them feel better about themselves or to display a sort of power trip, holier-than-thou, dominance.


Posted By: LucieMay
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 5:59am
I'm not religious but surely what you do with your body is irrelevant from a religious perspective as our physical bodies die and rot while it is our souls that live on eternally?


Posted By: st_tabby
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by MrGlass

Some old lady tried that BS with me. The funny thing though, was when I asked her if she was a sinner or had demons because her ears were pierced TWO TIMES in each ear she said "that's different" and I said "no, that's just accepted because it's been done to SO MANY women it doesn't matter anymore."
 
I grew up in this type of mentality. My favorite arguement is if piercing is wrong then all piercing is wrong even your $1000 diamond studs which are oh sooo conservative.


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Tabby

Life is such a ride! WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!


Posted By: CheapPerfume
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 1:35pm
I like to consider myself an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in God, because there is no hard evidence proving he existed. If you can show me hard evidence, then yeah, perhaps I'll rethink my religiosity. Until then, I choose science, psychology, and reason to explain why the universe and its inhabitants formed, and why good and evil exist amongst them. I don't like following a religion that tells me I'm a sinner based upon what two naked people did eons ago.

I liked that guys opinions on divorce. "You cannot divorce your husband, you made your bed, now lie in it, and be miserable for the rest of your lives."





Posted By: CheapPerfume
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by st_tabby

Originally posted by MrGlass

Some old lady tried that BS with me. The funny thing though, was when I asked her if she was a sinner or had demons because her ears were pierced TWO TIMES in each ear she said "that's different" and I said "no, that's just accepted because it's been done to SO MANY women it doesn't matter anymore."
 
I grew up in this type of mentality. My favorite arguement is if piercing is wrong then all piercing is wrong even your $1000 diamond studs which are oh sooo conservative.


Oh, and apparently in the bible it says that women should dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair, or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.
So I'm pretty sure she was a "double sinner" - ears pierced AND expensive baubles.


Posted By: baronvongeiger
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 5:38pm
This is the way i live my life. I dont force my way on anyone. It realy pisses me off when people force there life on me.


Posted By: Tali
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Uraniumhobo

Originally posted by kcir

sorry, i take offense to being held to another's religious ideals. just because christianity is one of the world's biggest cults doesn't mean christians can go around insulting everyone else for not thinking like they do.


those wh judge in such a way will be dealt with if god exists becuase there sinning for judging since in there eyes only god is alowed to judge, but i must say i know it sucks sometimes and it can be irritating for what others say about us, but sometimes we do the same thing for bashing there beliefs as well which seems a little unfair
 
Just a little input on a common misconception...
 
Commonly based off where the Bible equates to "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." when the woman sinner is about to be stoned, people say "do not judge lest ye be judged", or such. While God IS the only judge for a person's final destination, heaven or hell (according to Christian theology), that is what is referred to by not judging; judging whether someone will go to heaven or hell.
 
The Bible teaches against judging others by appearance BUT it does say we can judge someone by "the fruits of their works", or by what they do and what has come of it. If someone is doing some you know is wrong, then he or she can be judged accordingly as a "bad" or incorrect person. However, if one was to go as far as judging someone to end up in heaven or hell, then that person would be sinning in his or her judgement.
 
What is "wrong" then, in judging someone? If one is not of the Christian faith, then the wrongness of someone's actions is left to personal interpretation. The way "right" and "wrong" is to be judged by a Christian is by the rules of the Bible.
 
So, if one is a Christian and he or she bears witness to the wrongdoing/s of another (be it to that person's knowledge or not), it is not only the Christian's right but his or her duty to judge that person and, if possible, inform and guide that person to repentance.
 
 
Aside from all that, the only modification that would be sin, to my understanding, would be doing something for the sole purpose of inflicting pain on oneself. In this, something as little as cutting a finger just to feel the pain would be sin.
 
Umm... something else I'd like to add is that the are many people who claim to be of a certain religion but do not follow the doctrine of their own religion(or alter it to fit their own desires). There are many nominal Christians these days who make Christianity look bad, but as there are people who call themselves Islamic who make Islam look bad.  The religions are not to blame, but the individuals in the religion. Even at that, there are people who have grown in each religion, being taught nothing but the aspects of that religion.
 
It doesn't take long to offset a religion and create an entirely differnt branch of it with different doctrines that still goes under the same label as the base religion... For example, say there was a religion called "Mao". The Maoists are a peceful people, living in the way they see appropriate, based off the one and true god.
 
A group of individuals become greedy, want things different, done in a way that suits them. The group leaves to start their own villiage or whatever. They change what the Maoists taught and teach this to their offspring. The offspring are taught nothing but the beliefs of their parents and are taught all other religion is wrong.
 
Others join and time goes by until three or four generations have passed. What started as a group becomes another civilization. All anyone knows is what they've been taught, what their elders taught. They also call themselves Maoists.
 
Another group, seeing waht these Maoists do, form a stereotype of them, not distinguishing one type of Maoist from the next. One group does one thing, the other group does another, making all Maoists look like hypocrites and liars, an entirely wrong and bad impression of the original group of Maoists. Other people judge the Maoist way unaccordingly, people who could have had the peace, understanding, and truth of the original Maoist had they not been so quick to judge a group of people because their name.
 
Now there are billions of people in the world with a few major religions to be a "part" of. Does that mean all people under each label are going to act according to that label? Are all Christians going to be hypocrites and all people of Islam going to blow people up and all Buddhists be peaceful, enlightened people? I don't think so.
 
Anyway, I didn't mean for such a long post and i hope I made sense... and I don't know if a "Mao" rligion actually exists, it just popped into my head when thinking of a word to use as an example...
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Uraniumhobo
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Tali

Originally posted by Uraniumhobo

Originally posted by kcir

sorry, i take offense to being held to another's religious ideals. just because christianity is one of the world's biggest cults doesn't mean christians can go around insulting everyone else for not thinking like they do.
those wh judge in such a way will be dealt with if god exists becuase there sinning for judging since in there eyes only god is alowed to judge, but i must say i know it sucks sometimes and it can be irritating for what others say about us, but sometimes we do the same thing for bashing there beliefs as well which seems a little unfair

 

Just a little input on a common misconception...

 

Commonly based off where the Bible equates to "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." when the woman sinner is about to be stoned, people say "do not judge lest ye be judged", or such. While God IS the only judge for a person's final destination, heaven or hell (according to Christian theology), that is what is referred to by not judging; judging whether someone will go to heaven or hell.

 


lol yea thats what i ment but i guess i just wasnt clear enough, or people would be sinning by giving job interviews lol

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Ah ha-ha, chess. The ancient contest of wits. Two opponents: mano a mano. Braino a braino. And look: magnets for ease of travel. You could play chess on the moon.


Posted By: Tali
Date Posted: December/31/2008 at 8:45pm

Aight. I just thought you'd like to know if you didn't becasue you're interested in that subject.



Posted By: sweatereyes
Date Posted: January/01/2009 at 8:26pm
Although what the site says about body modification is upsetting, I found what it says about HIV and AIDS to be far more disturbing.  I know that I shouldn't look at these sites for these exact reasons and it gets me needlessly upset (since I can't do anything to change their views).  I just don't understand how people can think that stuff... gahhh. sad.


Posted By: mbs08
Date Posted: January/01/2009 at 8:46pm
im a christian and i have tattoos and piercings.
 
 i think they are your choice.
 


Posted By: mbs08
Date Posted: January/01/2009 at 8:47pm
some people may dis agree but i am a believe of bodymodifications r ur own choice


Posted By: mezzio
Date Posted: January/03/2009 at 7:46am
When i see something like the link i just read, all i can think about is the hard core, god devoted Christians who live by a "do as i say not as i do" mentality.  Something like my dads lady friend, who was cool as hell with me, until i told her i was a non believer one day as she was spouting off some bible scriptures to me.  She makes herself out to be something great and totally devoted, but in reality just hides behind it to keep others from seeing their true colors... I see the creators of that site, as the same type of people as her.




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Reach for the stars, but never touch them... Stars are not for touching. Better yet, keep your fucking hands at your side.


Posted By: skkyzelda
Date Posted: January/04/2009 at 2:41am
Originally posted by Lunch_Box_Ink

I'm going to start by saying I am a devout Christian!  a great deal of my life is dedicated to my faith and spirituality.
 
ok, having said that...
 
This is NOT the "christian" view on piercing.  It is a modern legalistic view on piercing and modification in general.
 
1)  The body is a temple.  ok, BUT at the same time in the grand scheme of eternity our body dies, roughts away and becomes dust.  to quote the Bible, When we go to heaven were given a new body.  Not onl;y that, but doi we not decorate our building Temples?  Also, look at half of these people who say such things against piercing, they will have there ears pierced.  and they're come back will be somthing stupid like "oh, that's not the same thing"...we all know it is, they are hypocrits!  The way we mod our bodies is not defiling "God's Temple" as they say it is.  THE FUCKING WAY WE EAT, THE WAY WE GET FAT, THE WAY WE POLUTE AND EAT, DRINK, AND BREATH THAT SHIT!  THAT DEFILES "God's Temple" more then a fucking piercing!
 
2)  The references in the bIble tword modification is COMPLETLEY out of context and is NOT the same as what we do.  It referse to religous, or pagan practices that were to "false Gods" and other such things that would have been considerd against God in THAT TIME!  Alot of what the Bible speaks has to do with that era and thier culture.  the way and reasons we pierce ourself, or most of us pierce ourselfs are not at all the same as what the Bible speaks about. 
 
ok, I'm ranting.  I could go on.  But you get what I'm saying.  This pisses me off because I have had my own brothers and sisters in christ ridecule me or YEARS and I've heard this shit over and over and over and it's a bunch of BullSHIT!
 
God's concern is with a person's heart and spirit!  not a temporary dying flesh sack that holds the soul for a time that is only going to die and decay anyway
 
 
All of you pierced up peoples are beautiful!  keep it up!
 
very well said!  some Christians have become so close minded that they don't accept anyone who doesn't believe like they do.  ( i know from personal experiance) first off, God made you in His image.  You're already beautiful to Him no matter what.  Secondly, I don't believe in the Devil HAHA! And yes, I am Christian and many of my good friends are too, so I'm not bashing Christians in anyway!


Posted By: Tali
Date Posted: January/04/2009 at 11:57am
That's why I put the title in quotes, to show that it isn't the "true" Christian view on piercing but the view of piercing by a "Christian"...


Posted By: shellynapier
Date Posted: January/10/2009 at 10:05pm
Im am also a christian... non practising but I do believe in God and Jesus etc. I have tattoos, lots of piercings and in no way to I think im defiling my body. Im simply adorning it, working with what I have been given.


Posted By: rog22nyy
Date Posted: January/10/2009 at 10:40pm
I went to a Christian school for 13 years and I am a practicing Christian and I get crap like this all the time. A lot of "christians" seem to thing that a whole in one's ears is somehow different from a hole in the tongue or anywhere else. While Leviticus speaks specifically against "Marking oneself for the dead and tattooing oneself", this reference is toward people who think that these activities will cause the person getting tattooed to have godly powers or protection, thus making that person comparable to God, which is sinful. The chapter in which this is located also speaks against wearing clothes of multiple fabrics and cutting their sideburns. It's a little dated. There are also verses in the old testament stating that women were often given nose rings as adornments upon expecting their wedding days.

Here's what I have to say about Christians who say things like this, a lot of them are extremely hypocritical and are not at all knowladgeable about the topic of which they speak. I've run into a lot of these people and most of them just have uneducated things to say about the topic. Another argument I give these "Christians" is this scenerio: "In terms of bringing people to God, are you going to go up to a modified person with your prude attitude and expect to bring them to God or would you rather them see a good attitude from someone they can idetify with?

... just some other stuff to think about that I didn't see already mentioned. Sorry, this kind of thing just really irks me.


Posted By: Druidess
Date Posted: January/11/2009 at 3:22am
My parents are Christians, the way they react to my mods, including the branding, is actually quite well. They are ok with it, first off because I am a grown woman, and secondly because they know I am not doing it for negative reasons. It is not something they support, but they deal when they see me.


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When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fyre.


Posted By: white_horse
Date Posted: January/11/2009 at 9:00pm
We are ALL sinners we ALL defile our bodies in one way or a nother. I have zero tolerance for those holier than thou FUCKS. Who are they to say a hole through my cock is a greater defilement than the chemicals they slather themselves in to be "pretty", or that a tattoo is a greater sin than their gluttonous fat ass. ugh I'm an atheist so I don't put any stock in these ridiculous rules of conduct but seriously the ignorance and arrogance of some of these bible humpers is disturbing I'm sure their god would be pleased with their complete lack of respect for the more colorful of his creations.

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-False



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